Comments on: Tenure and the Law Deans http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/ Academic commentary on law, business, economics and more Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:08:11 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: The Volokh Conspiracy http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1534 The Volokh Conspiracy Sun, 23 Apr 2006 00:56:51 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1534 <strong>American Law Deans Association Criticizes ABA Accreditation Standards:...</strong> Not with regard to racial preferences, but because the ABA has heavy-handedly sought to require librarians, writing instructors, and clinical faculty be granted tenure or tenure-like protections. I can certainly see the case for...... American Law Deans Association Criticizes ABA Accreditation Standards:…

Not with regard to racial preferences, but because the ABA has heavy-handedly sought to require librarians, writing instructors, and clinical faculty be granted tenure or tenure-like protections. I can certainly see the case for……

]]> By: TRUTH ON THE MARKET » Bernstein on the Law Deans, Tenure, and the ABA http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1531 TRUTH ON THE MARKET » Bernstein on the Law Deans, Tenure, and the ABA Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:31:58 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1531 [...] It is worth pointing out, as Geoff did in his earlier post on the ALDA’s comments, that this debate is not really over tenure standards (though that debate may be one worth having). ALDA explicitly distinguishes between objecting to tenure and tenure-like standards per se and the imposition of such requirements by the ABA: Many [law schools have] also chosen to establish “tenure-likeâ€? models that provide for assured employment for a term of years. However, these are domestic decisions made through the established processes of the institution, not models imposed upon them as a condition of acceptance among the brethren of ABA-accredited law schools. [...] [...] It is worth pointing out, as Geoff did in his earlier post on the ALDA’s comments, that this debate is not really over tenure standards (though that debate may be one worth having). ALDA explicitly distinguishes between objecting to tenure and tenure-like standards per se and the imposition of such requirements by the ABA: Many [law schools have] also chosen to establish “tenure-likeâ€? models that provide for assured employment for a term of years. However, these are domestic decisions made through the established processes of the institution, not models imposed upon them as a condition of acceptance among the brethren of ABA-accredited law schools. [...]

]]> By: TRUTH ON THE MARKET » Leaving legal academia http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1293 TRUTH ON THE MARKET » Leaving legal academia Thu, 13 Apr 2006 22:50:57 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1293 [...] it happen more often? Filed under: musings , legal scholarship , law school Permalink | Trackback URL | [Comments (0) TrackBack(0)] [...] [...] it happen more often? Filed under: musings , legal scholarship , law school Permalink | Trackback URL | [Comments (0) TrackBack(0)] [...]

]]> By: Josh http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1133 Josh Thu, 06 Apr 2006 06:11:18 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1133 I guess one "could" argue that the ALDA is really seeking to strip the accreditation body of the power to require tenure so that deans might eliminate tenure without fear of punishment. I dont read the statement that way. The ALDA statement seems to clearly embrace the possibility that institutions that prefer the tenure-model use it, institutions that don't are free to get rid of it, and those that wish to develop other models do so as well. But it is not an uncommont strategy for cartels to take great strides to stifle such innovation and diversity. Unfortunately for consumers of legal education services, a reduction in this form of competition is generally a bad thing. I agree with Hank that a rational dean/ institution that believed that tenure had no impact on legal education or provided some benefit, it would seek to restrict tenure. But if we observed rational institutions eliminating tenure, notwithstanding the costs associated with decreased "faculty independence," would this not tell us something important about the trade-offs involved in such a decision? Would not the trade-offs be different across institutions? I guess one “could” argue that the ALDA is really seeking to strip the accreditation body of the power to require tenure so that deans might eliminate tenure without fear of punishment. I dont read the statement that way. The ALDA statement seems to clearly embrace the possibility that institutions that prefer the tenure-model use it, institutions that don’t are free to get rid of it, and those that wish to develop other models do so as well. But it is not an uncommont strategy for cartels to take great strides to stifle such innovation and diversity. Unfortunately for consumers of legal education services, a reduction in this form of competition is generally a bad thing.

I agree with Hank that a rational dean/ institution that believed that tenure had no impact on legal education or provided some benefit, it would seek to restrict tenure. But if we observed rational institutions eliminating tenure, notwithstanding the costs associated with decreased “faculty independence,” would this not tell us something important about the trade-offs involved in such a decision? Would not the trade-offs be different across institutions?

]]> By: Ralph A. http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1130 Ralph A. Thu, 06 Apr 2006 03:50:57 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1130 Great post. I wonder when the clinical faculty and the librarians will hit the streets; it seemed to have work for the French youth. Great post. I wonder when the clinical faculty and the librarians will hit the streets; it seemed to have work for the French youth.

]]> By: Hank Chambers http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1118 Hank Chambers Wed, 05 Apr 2006 20:42:28 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1118 Josh, the part of the Angel post that is cited in Geoff's post suggests that eliminating tenure from the accreditation standards is a direct threat to faculty independence, not that it will necessarily lead to an abolition of tenure. Of course, one can argue that ALDA merely wants to remove the tenure issue from the accreditation body. Conversely, one can argue that ALDA (an association of deans) wants to restrict the accrediting body from requiring tenure in some form so a dean may have the flexibility to restrict tenure generally or refuse to grant tenure in specific instances without worrying whether the accrediting body is looking over the dean's shoulder. The possibility of limiting of tenure is a direct threat to faculty independence, even if tenure survives. More importantly, if a dean believes that tenure does not add to the quality of legal education why wouldn't a rational dean want to and try to restrict tenure as much as possible, i.e., as much as his school will let her/him? Josh, the part of the Angel post that is cited in Geoff’s post suggests that eliminating tenure from the accreditation standards is a direct threat to faculty independence, not that it will necessarily lead to an abolition of tenure. Of course, one can argue that ALDA merely wants to remove the tenure issue from the accreditation body. Conversely, one can argue that ALDA (an association of deans) wants to restrict the accrediting body from requiring tenure in some form so a dean may have the flexibility to restrict tenure generally or refuse to grant tenure in specific instances without worrying whether the accrediting body is looking over the dean’s shoulder. The possibility of limiting of tenure is a direct threat to faculty independence, even if tenure survives.
More importantly, if a dean believes that tenure does not add to the quality of legal education why wouldn’t a rational dean want to and try to restrict tenure as much as possible, i.e., as much as his school will let her/him?

]]> By: Josh http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1111 Josh Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:04:07 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1111 Hank, Angel does not "question the commitment to tenure" of the ALDA. She writes of the "new threat" to "eliminate or severely limit" tenure. The letter provides no evidence of such a threat. In fact, the letter appears to support exactly such internal law school governance decisions. The most reasonable, and fairly obvious, interpretation of the ALDA letter is that the Law Deans are opposed to (as Geoff wrote):"the broad imposition of specific employment contract terms by a law school accrediting body, the ABA." Even if the ALDA believes that tenure has little or no effect of the quality of legal education, I do not see how this belief is at tension with the position that such decisions should be left to law schools, not the ABA. Hank, Angel does not “question the commitment to tenure” of the ALDA. She writes of the “new threat” to “eliminate or severely limit” tenure. The letter provides no evidence of such a threat. In fact, the letter appears to support exactly such internal law school governance decisions. The most reasonable, and fairly obvious, interpretation of the ALDA letter is that the Law Deans are opposed to (as Geoff wrote):”the broad imposition of specific employment contract terms by a law school accrediting body, the ABA.” Even if the ALDA believes that tenure has little or no effect of the quality of legal education, I do not see how this belief is at tension with the position that such decisions should be left to law schools, not the ABA.

]]> By: Hank Chambers http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1109 Hank Chambers Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:28:56 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1109 Unfortunately, the post ignores the most important claim in the ALDA statement: that tenure and long-term contracts have little or no effect on the quality of education at law schools. It is perfectly fair to question the commitment to tenure of deans who do not appear to believe that tenure and long-term contracts have an effect on the quality of legal education. Unfortunately, the post ignores the most important claim in the ALDA statement: that tenure and long-term contracts have little or no effect on the quality of education at law schools.
It is perfectly fair to question the commitment to tenure of deans who do not appear to believe that tenure and long-term contracts have an effect on the quality of legal education.

]]> By: Keith http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/comment-page-1/#comment-1083 Keith Tue, 04 Apr 2006 23:38:52 +0000 http://www.truthonthemarket.com/2006/04/04/tenure-and-the-law-deans/#comment-1083 Great post Geoff. The Law Deans' statement pretty clearly indicates that they aren't opposed to tenure. Great post Geoff. The Law Deans’ statement pretty clearly indicates that they aren’t opposed to tenure.

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